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#1 2008-11-30 03:45:56

gamerzfuse
Member
Registered: 2008-11-30
Posts: 5

New Hard Drive

I've been reading through these tutorials, forums and etc for about a month now and it's got me worried about my DNS-323.

I have the following:
a) 150 GB Seagate
b) 750 GB Seagate
I use the box for nothing but movies. I have a collection of over 300 movies right now on the server, I access it about twice a day for a single movie transfer.

Two questions:

1. Should I worry about backing up and setting them as RAID 1 so that there is no chance of my losing them, or is this not a huge worry for my situation?

2. If I do purchase another Seagate 750, can I just remove the 150 and plug the 750 in, change it to RAID 1.. or will I have to backup my entire movie collection first?

Thanks in advance.

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#2 2008-11-30 04:21:12

bq041
Member
From: USA
Registered: 2008-03-19
Posts: 709

Re: New Hard Drive

Why do you want RAID1?  It is not a backup.  Unless you need to have the data available 24/7 no matter what, then you would be better off to go with individual drives and perform either a backup from 1 disk to the other, or to a drive (s) separtate from the DNS.

You should always have a backup of you movie collection.


DNS-323     F/W: 1.04b84  H/W: A1  ffp: 0.5  Drives: 2X 400 GB Seagate SATA-300
DNS-323     F/W: 1.05b28  H/W: B1  ffp: 0.5  Drives: 2X 1 TB  WD SATA-300
DSM-G600   F/W: 1.02       H/W: B                Drive:  500 GB WD ATA

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#3 2008-11-30 04:39:56

gamerzfuse
Member
Registered: 2008-11-30
Posts: 5

Re: New Hard Drive

Soo.. You don't recommend using RAID 1?
I should just use two 750s and backup the important files from one to the other?

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#4 2008-11-30 09:48:27

mig
Member
From: Seattle, WA
Registered: 2006-12-21
Posts: 532

Re: New Hard Drive

gamerzfuse wrote:

1. Should I worry about backing up and setting them as RAID 1 so that there is no chance of my losing them, or is this not a huge worry for my situation?

Only you can determine the necessity of a backup for your data.
You have to weigh the cost (in time) of transferring the movies from the original DVDs to the NAS
with the cost (in $) of purchasing a another backup drive.  So, which do you have more of... time or money?


DNS-323 • 2x Seagate Barracuda ES 7200.10 ST3250620NS 250GB SATAII (3.0Gb/s) 7200RPM 16MB • RAID1 • FW1.03 • ext2 
Fonz's v0.3 fun_plug http://www.inreto.de/dns323/fun-plug

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#5 2008-11-30 13:54:55

luusac
Member
Registered: 2008-04-29
Posts: 360

Re: New Hard Drive

if you decide to backup from one to the other there are various ways to automate this which can be found by searching this forum or looking at the wiki

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#6 2008-11-30 18:36:55

gamerzfuse
Member
Registered: 2008-11-30
Posts: 5

Re: New Hard Drive

I think I will purchase a new drive. I will look for something around 1 TB.
If I simply remove the 150 and insert the 1TB drive in its slot.. will that leave the other drive untouched?

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#7 2008-12-01 22:58:54

bq041
Member
From: USA
Registered: 2008-03-19
Posts: 709

Re: New Hard Drive

In theory, but I would have a backup of the data just in case.  I personally set up my drives manually using a telnet session; D-Link web GUI has had too many issues formatting the wrong drive for my tastes.


DNS-323     F/W: 1.04b84  H/W: A1  ffp: 0.5  Drives: 2X 400 GB Seagate SATA-300
DNS-323     F/W: 1.05b28  H/W: B1  ffp: 0.5  Drives: 2X 1 TB  WD SATA-300
DSM-G600   F/W: 1.02       H/W: B                Drive:  500 GB WD ATA

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#8 2008-12-02 00:43:14

fordem
Member
Registered: 2007-01-26
Posts: 1938

Re: New Hard Drive

RAID1 is not "a solution to major data loss" - it's purpose is to reduce and hopefully eliminate the down time that results from a DISK FAILURE.

There is a cost to using RAID1 and that is that you lose half of your available storage - in today's world of low cost high capacity disks, this is no longer the problem that it once was - but - if down time is not a concern, then there is no need to sacrifice the available space.

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#9 2008-12-03 18:42:37

gamerzfuse
Member
Registered: 2008-11-30
Posts: 5

Re: New Hard Drive

Well.. I don't want to have to purchase another external Drive to back it up to.
I already have a Maxtor 300 GB Network drive that is on it's last legs, so I'm transferring that (TV Shows) to my DNS-323.
Then If I get a 1TB Drive, I can back up my current collection of about 600GB to the 750 drive.. and then anything I don't care about I can leave un-backed up in the excess 250 GB that can't be backed up.

Unless there is a cheaper or smarter method then this? Down time is never an issue.

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#10 2008-12-05 19:06:27

puterboy
Member
Registered: 2008-09-18
Posts: 306

Re: New Hard Drive

fordem wrote:

RAID1 is not "a solution to major data loss" - it's purpose is to reduce and hopefully eliminate the down time that results from a DISK FAILURE.

There is a cost to using RAID1 and that is that you lose half of your available storage - in today's world of low cost high capacity disks, this is no longer the problem that it once was - but - if down time is not a concern, then there is no need to sacrifice the available space.

I don't understand this.
Without RAID1, if a disk really fails then I lose all my data since my last backup (assuming I even have a recent one) - no matter how much time I have
With RAID1, I can recover all data from the other disk.

If you are comparing 2-disk RAID1 with backing up 1 disk to another disk, then the advantage of RAID1 is that both disks are always synchronized (the disadvantage is that all mistakes are also instantly synchronized).

But if your goal is to never lose your current data, then RAID1 seems to me to protect you quite well from single-disk failure.

Am I missing something?

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#11 2008-12-05 21:03:07

fordem
Member
Registered: 2007-01-26
Posts: 1938

Re: New Hard Drive

First thing you need to do is to "de-link" the idea that loss of data is the result of a disk failure - once you can do that, everything else will fall into place.

Disk failure is one of the causes of data loss, but not the only cause - as you point out RAID1 will protect you from data loss cause by a single disk failure - other causes of data loss are users, viruses, and hardware failure - RAID1 offers no protection from any of these.

Now - let's look specifically at the other point you raise ...

Without RAID1, if a disk really fails then I lose all my data since my last backup (assuming I even have a recent one) - no matter how much time I have

Let us assume that the reverse is true - you have no RAID1, but - not only do you have a backup, it is up to date - to the very minute and last transaction before the drive failed, let us also assume that time is of the essence, and you're loosing $50,000/minute - how long will it take you to replace the failed disk, restore the backup and be ready to resume processing?  What is the cost of this down time?

With RAID1 - the processing continues uninterrupted - in most cases the end user never knows a drive failure occurred, only the system administrator - and he/she then takes what ever steps are required to replace the failed drive at a convenient time and with the minimum possible disruption to productivity.

THIS is the purpose of RAID technology - every version of RAID other than RAID0 - THIS is the reason that just about every server sold has a RAID array.

Bigger businesses take this concept further - redundant disks only protect from disk failure - what happens if the server itself fails (memory, motherboard, whatever), you can have redundant servers - two (or more) servers and if one fails the other(s) continue to function and again the end user is completely unaware

Welcome to the world of high availability - where - as much as possible, everything is duplicated, data, disks, memory, power supplies, network cards, the entire server, UPSs, networks, right down to the data center itself.

I have one client that maintains two sites - each equipped with a Windows 2003 server cluster, each equipped with two servers and a total of five (5) RAID arrays between them and tape back up that runs at 15 min intervals, each site has it's own UPS and standby diesel.

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#12 2008-12-06 17:16:40

bq041
Member
From: USA
Registered: 2008-03-19
Posts: 709

Re: New Hard Drive

fordem, let me take this one step further.  MSN, Google, and Yahoo happen to be clients of my company.  We build the standby diesels used in the Hitec UPS systems.  Each of them have several sites spread across the country and each site has between 8 and 32 diesel powered UPS systems.  Yes, I said 32 in 1 location.  These are also engines that are the size of small school busses, and the UPSs go for close to if not more then $1 million each.

When it comes to redundency and down time, it is big business.  The standard is 0 down time, not the goal.


DNS-323     F/W: 1.04b84  H/W: A1  ffp: 0.5  Drives: 2X 400 GB Seagate SATA-300
DNS-323     F/W: 1.05b28  H/W: B1  ffp: 0.5  Drives: 2X 1 TB  WD SATA-300
DSM-G600   F/W: 1.02       H/W: B                Drive:  500 GB WD ATA

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#13 2008-12-06 22:56:56

gamerzfuse
Member
Registered: 2008-11-30
Posts: 5

Re: New Hard Drive

Yes.. so this answers my question perfectly..
Let me get this straight:

I should purchase:
a) Another hard drive for my DNS-323
b) Another method to backup my movies
c) A diesel generator to backup my movie collection.

Thanks!

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#14 2008-12-06 23:09:21

mig
Member
From: Seattle, WA
Registered: 2006-12-21
Posts: 532

Re: New Hard Drive

mig wrote:

Only you can determine the necessity of a backup for your data.
You have to weigh the cost (in time) of transferring the movies from the original DVDs to the NAS
with the cost (in $) of purchasing a another backup drive.  So, which do you have more of... time or money?

It's really not that difficult, but you should choose a solution that is appropriate for your situation.


DNS-323 • 2x Seagate Barracuda ES 7200.10 ST3250620NS 250GB SATAII (3.0Gb/s) 7200RPM 16MB • RAID1 • FW1.03 • ext2 
Fonz's v0.3 fun_plug http://www.inreto.de/dns323/fun-plug

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