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#1 2008-02-08 08:48:35

mealto
Member
Registered: 2008-02-02
Posts: 95

DNS-323 dies, so now what?

I am running Raid 1 on the 323. If one hdd dies, I understand I can power down the unit, replace the dead hdd with a new one and the Raid array will rebuild itself once the unit is booted and formats the new drive. But what happens when the unit itself dies? Can you take those drives to a windows machine or insert them in USB external cases to retrieve the data?

Reason for asking is, whether I should run Raid 1 or just run them as JBOD and do a copy all from 1 drive to another every night.

Any help would be appreciated.

Unit is used as a back of existing data and has firmware 1.04.

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#2 2008-02-08 14:20:47

fordem
Member
Registered: 2007-01-26
Posts: 1938

Re: DNS-323 dies, so now what?

If the DNS-323 itself fails, the drive(s), assuming individual volumes or RAID1, can be pulled and installed in a linux system and the data recovered, they can also be installed in a Windows system with an ext2 filesystem driver installed and the data recovered - by installed I mean connected either internally or externally to whatever port the operating system will permit a hard drive to be connected to - SATA, eSATA, USB or firewire - if the system can recognise a drive attached to the port, you're good to go.

Now - since you're using the unit as a backup store - what's the worst case scenario?

The unit failing or being destroyed simultaneously with the primary data store - not impossible - but you need to consider the probability, I would not use RAID1 - RAID1 is designed to reduce the impact of a drive failure - what is the impact of a drive failure in a backup store?  Usually none, unless it fails at or around the same time as the primary store fails.

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#3 2008-02-08 18:24:38

mig
Member
From: Seattle, WA
Registered: 2006-12-21
Posts: 532

Re: DNS-323 dies, so now what?

mealto wrote:

...But what happens when the unit itself dies? Can you take those drives to a windows machine or insert them in USB external cases to retrieve the data?...

In order to prove to yourself, your recover plan will work, you should "practice" that plan now,
so you won't have any surprises, if the actual disaster takes place.


DNS-323 • 2x Seagate Barracuda ES 7200.10 ST3250620NS 250GB SATAII (3.0Gb/s) 7200RPM 16MB • RAID1 • FW1.03 • ext2 
Fonz's v0.3 fun_plug http://www.inreto.de/dns323/fun-plug

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#4 2008-02-08 20:37:21

mealto
Member
Registered: 2008-02-02
Posts: 95

Re: DNS-323 dies, so now what?

hmm, not sure how to install a ext2 filesystem driver so maybe I should get rid of Raid 1 and go to standard mode? Does this sound right?

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#5 2008-02-08 20:59:48

fordem
Member
Registered: 2007-01-26
Posts: 1938

Re: DNS-323 dies, so now what?

mealto wrote:

hmm, not sure how to install a ext2 filesystem driver so maybe I should get rid of Raid 1 and go to standard mode? Does this sound right?

RAID1 or 2 two standard volumes, it makes no difference - without the filesystem driver you will still be unable to access the disk from Windows, if the unit itself fails.

http://www.fs-driver.org/

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#6 2008-02-08 21:37:50

mealto
Member
Registered: 2008-02-02
Posts: 95

Re: DNS-323 dies, so now what?

I see. So this is a piece of software that enables Windows XP to see the DNS drives if I plug the SATA drives to a USB adapter?

Before I go ahead and install and test the recovery process, is there anything else that I need to know? ie. what are the down sides to installing this piece of software on a Windows machine etc...

Thanks in advance!

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#7 2008-02-08 23:52:52

fordem
Member
Registered: 2007-01-26
Posts: 1938

Re: DNS-323 dies, so now what?

This is a piece of software that allows Windows to read an ext2 formatted drive, connected to an interface that supports a disk drive.

Personally I have only used it with a USB-SATA adapter, but as far as I know it will work with the drive connected directly to the motherboard's SATA port and also to a SATA add in card.

I'm not aware of any down sides to installing this software, perhaps other than the same as you would have with any Windows software - it certainly caused no new problems for me.

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#8 2008-02-09 03:18:46

mealto
Member
Registered: 2008-02-02
Posts: 95

Re: DNS-323 dies, so now what?

So let me see if I got this straight. If the DNS-323 is used as a backup file server (where daily dumps are done to it through the LAN), AND, if installing the FS Driver will allow Windows to recognize these drives once they are pulled out of the 323, then wouldn't it make sense to keep the Dlink in Raid 1 rather than doing a daily back up from Drive A to B? In other words, once the daily backup schedule runs, Raid 1 would duplicate the data across the 2 drives without requiring a 2nd backup schema to be run from Drive A to Drive B.

Reason for all of this is that Raid 1 is used to prevent single disk failures but I am using the 323 as a backup file server. So wouldn't Raid 1 be a better setup than standard since it is only being used as a backup server?

So I guess I am wondering if removing the Raid setup would lower the risk of losing the data on the unit? Any more thoughts?

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#9 2008-02-09 03:37:16

fordem
Member
Registered: 2007-01-26
Posts: 1938

Re: DNS-323 dies, so now what?

RAID1 is designed to reduce the downtime impact of a disk failure, which, in the case of primary storage, usually brings the system to a halt until such time as the disk can be replaced.

When used as backup storage there is usually no downtime if the disk fails and hence no justification for the additional cost of running RAID - which in the case of RAID1 is the loss of half the storage capacity.

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#10 2008-02-09 04:25:53

mealto
Member
Registered: 2008-02-02
Posts: 95

Re: DNS-323 dies, so now what?

So would Raid 1 bring any more risk to a back up server? I am thinking that if there is a power failure during a backup scheme running, both drives might end up with data corruption versus running in standard mode where a power failure during a backup might only result in 1 drive dieing.

Any more thoughts on this issue? We are trying to use the NAS for a backup server and recovery would be via Windows (either direct USB connection to the drive or through the 323 if it still works properly).

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#11 2008-02-09 04:33:57

fordem
Member
Registered: 2007-01-26
Posts: 1938

Re: DNS-323 dies, so now what?

What would the power failure do to the system which is being backed up?

If you have a concern about power failure related data loss, then UPS is where you look, not RAID

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#12 2008-02-09 07:07:58

mealto
Member
Registered: 2008-02-02
Posts: 95

Re: DNS-323 dies, so now what?

Exactly. After thinking about the situation some more, I am leaning towards running standard formatted dual hard drives. Backups would occur sequentially (LAN to Drive A then Drive A to Drive B). I think having to stick with a 500 Gig Raid Array even if bigger harddrives become more accessible in the future just does not make sense for a backup server. Not sure if this is correct in thinking this way but for backups, Raid would just be another factor that I have to deal with in the long run. WHy not simply move it out of the equation for a backup server. Sounds right?

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#13 2008-02-11 00:43:34

blbrown
Member
Registered: 2007-11-02
Posts: 88
Website

Re: DNS-323 dies, so now what?

mealto wrote:

Exactly. After thinking about the situation some more, I am leaning towards running standard formatted dual hard drives. Backups would occur sequentially (LAN to Drive A then Drive A to Drive B). I think having to stick with a 500 Gig Raid Array even if bigger harddrives become more accessible in the future just does not make sense for a backup server. Not sure if this is correct in thinking this way but for backups, Raid would just be another factor that I have to deal with in the long run. WHy not simply move it out of the equation for a backup server. Sounds right?

I agree.  Remove anything that adds complexity without adding benefit.  That way you have fewer points of failure.  For copying the backup data between disk A and B within the DNS-323, you should check out this thread:

http://dns323.kood.org/forum/t1150-Tuto … night.html

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#14 2008-02-11 08:08:43

mealto
Member
Registered: 2008-02-02
Posts: 95

Re: DNS-323 dies, so now what?

blbrown wrote:

I agree.  Remove anything that adds complexity without adding benefit.  That way you have fewer points of failure.  For copying the backup data between disk A and B within the DNS-323, you should check out this thread:

http://dns323.kood.org/forum/t1150-Tuto … night.html

Thanks for the vote of confidence and for the link. I read the first page of that thread and it looks like it deals with users who use Volume_1 as a real time file server. My situation is a little different in that the backup software is scheduled at 2 times in the day to copy files over from LAN'ed computers to the 323. I will simply set Volume_1 to sync with Volume_2, using the software that takes care of the original backups, right after the end of the backup sequences. I think that should work beautifully without having to do anymore to automate the process (ie. working with more code).

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